Tyson Beckford at the height of his undeniable beauty
My colleague at MDC , Betty Sze uploaded a post on OTM titled, "Change Begins Today" which contrasted the inaugration of Barack Obama as the President Of The United States with the lack of color on the Milan FW 09 men's runways (as per a Guy Trebay article in the NY Times). The following day I was at a shoot for frillr.com with an unsigned black male model. The subject of why there has been no black male super-star since Tyson Beckford came up. I was asked why did I think that was . I found myself stumped. Not because I didn't have a point of view on the subject but more truthfully, because I had several complicated and conflicting ideas about the issue. A whole frenzy of questions came to mind.
Was it because Tyson Beckford was a singular and astonishing specimen of male beauty who also just happened to be a great model on camera, as well as a very charismatic man? Was it that he has not been matched since? I'm being arch but..why the empty seat 10 years later?
What were the hows and wherefores of Tyson Beckford's career? Was it his first agent , Tyron Barrington ? Was it the agency head, Bethann Hardison that made that difference with their specific management strategy? Was it their handling of Mr Beckford's career that took his bookings in the 90's from a First Down campaign to a multi-million dollar Ralph Lauren contract, with stop-offs for Joop campaigns, Arena Homme covers and Only Guy L'Uomo Vogue stories along the way?
Come to think of it... what was going on at the shop called Bethann Mgmt that led to such massively lucrative careers for a fellow model like Richard Elms for clients including CK 1 and Versace? Was it personal relationships with fashion 's power brokers that made the difference? Was the racial climate and the fashion market so vividly different then? I don't feel that it is. Those models faced the same lack of open-mindedness that today's crop of black male models do.
In all fairness Sandy and Armando at Wilhelmina have been impeccably managed and probably are very well compensated. Armando, the only black male model on Models.com's Men's Top 50 still books flawlessly. His career has witnessed Only Guy stories in V Man and Numero Homme as well as a gushing profile in ID Magazine and in-demand runway presence, an eventually not matched by any of his current colleagues of the same race.
So I could equally ask myself...what are clients- even if inadequately in the form of this one model- responding to? Why Armando?
Do clients feel like directional, Milanese mens' fashion is not the purvey of a black, Asian or a Latino market ? Do designers resent being forced to express an aesthetic that is not organic or instinctive to them? Do they feel like models of color are not necessary to speak to their existing core market? Do they have the right to maintain the restricted nature of their vision?
How does Kanye West feel about all that? Should he re-think his dream internship at Raf Simons since Raf Simons produced another Milan FW 09 Jil Sander show with no black models in sight. Or is Raf exempted because the cabine for his eponymous SS 08 show was distinctly multi-ethnic?
Are Dean and Dan for D Squared absolved because they chose to do an "all ethnic" show last season, but not for FW 09?
And regarding Frida Giannini, the Gucci designer who stated to the Times "I think it would be great if there was an industry initiative on this issue, because I am always looking for black models, or even Chinese or whatever. For the shows I’m after a specific kind of look and I request the agencies — I asked last season — to send me someone interesting. But they never send me anyone very new.”
Does Giannini's sentiments code an exasperation with a exhausting and no-win conversation for her?
And then there is the issue forwarded by the agency Red, positing that during castings, amazing options on black male models came on the charts ...and then fell off. Why? What were the designers and casting directors looking for in the first place that they ultimately found lacking?
High end editorial mens' fashion I have always felt, is such a small and strange market, much like a niche within a niche within a niche. It was only a matter of time before that very hermetic and insular world should find itself challenged by a wider cultural cross-current.
After combing through those questions I've decided a write a feature on MDC on that issue. Usually I'd do at TI (think of this post as the research notes) because I've always felt it would be gauche to write personally about moral issues within the context of the knotted industry politics I work with at Models.com. I plan to speak to as many mens' agencies heads as possible on the subject and then cross-reference that body of perspective against my own views which are I admit, a little strong. But as I have been telling those close to me, 2009 is the Year of Realness for us all . You can either say what everybody wants to hear or you can speak your own truth. Ultimately anger and frustration are easy things to express. But how do you win the game.... definitively? That's the final question that drives me. I think an obstacle exists as much as your mind allows it to exist. Cut to Barack Obama playing a masterful game of political chess all the way to a Presidency. That success should indeed inspire every booker, model, casting director and designer that stereotypes are not eternal. Feedback (especially booking facts on Tyson's career) and comments on any of these questions would be a great help!

who has that same Willpower
yson must have been very good at networking. He must have also been very hungry for that exposure to the audience. If there were more models with the same mentality and vision as tyson then maybe there would be more black models.BUt because of all the mudslinging and doubts toward being a model, i dont think a black man would want to be in the spotlight. Actually I am contradicting myself, Simplt because i LOVE the limelight and im black (CAPEVERDEAN look it up), I am very ambitous and love taking that next step towards advenutre. I grew up being shy because i was told i was ugly and believed it, and learning about racism didnt help, now imagine the rest of the world there are definetly more kids growing up like this. thats why there has been a spike in suicides. fortunately i am strong minded and godwilling you will be able to witness me take that step on to the runway- my name is Jimmy P. and we all need to be seen no matta what color
Male Model
Hey man. I definitely feel you on being told FALSE INFORMATION about one's looks. I am a Male model myself and I have been putting myself out there....I do not like giving or hearing excuses but besides submitting my photos to a million and one different people and doing fashion shows...What other avenues should I try?
Sergio Robinson
I am a Black male supermodel...
My career has thrived over the past 11 years. I have been one of Ford's top billing male models for several years with a roster of several blue chip clients. You should know my name, and you probably would, if Ford was willing to promote me as a supermodel. Modeling agencies play a key role in establishing the top Black male models in the industry. Tyson's success was due to Bethann Hardison's willingness to make people pay attention to what he was accomplishing...
It's amazing that no one has been willing to do that for any Black male model since Tyson. It is even more astonishing when you are on the inside looking out...
Not Racism
maybe its because there are no real male supermodels, I mean it is rare now a days to find a female who becomes famous for being a model, so it would be extremely rare to find a male is famous or even close to being famous for being a model.
Givenchy is about to make history with its SS 2010 men
Prelude: One of my model David once called me frantic and said: Djamee, the clients did not want to see me. They said they only wanted to see latino and black I am asian. I told him that's ok come back butg i will keep on sending you every 6 months until they see you.
I bellieve nobody really change a system that works for them unless they have too.
IM THE NEXT TYSON BECKFORD...EXPECT ME TO BE HOTTER!!!
THE REASON WHY THERE BEEN NO BLACK SUPERMODEL SINCE TYSON BECKFORD. IT'S BECAUSE I AM STILL IN THE PHILIPPINES... MY FATHER IS BLACK... WHICH MAKES ME HOT...
HOWEVER I AM STILL UNDER CONSTRUCTION... DUE TO AN ACCIDENT.. WAIT ONCE THE RECONSTRUCTION IS FINISH...
IF WANNA THE SEE THE PROOF
JUST VISIT MY PAGE.
http://www.jurgita.com/models-id201052.html
no
no
SALIEU JALLOH OR DOMINIQUE HOLLINGTON QUALIFY
RACISM, RACISM, RACISM IS THE SIMPLE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION-- WHITE PEOPLE STILL RESIST CELEBRATING AFRICAN BEAUTY-- BECAUSE WE FEAR THIS BEAUTY, THAT IT MIGHT OVERPOWER US AND MARGINALIZE US AS WE HAVE MARGINALIZED AFRICAN BEAUTY
we have a black president.
we have a black president. That excuse doesn't work anymore. Go cry to someone else you reverse-racist!
Scary
I read stuff like this ("we have a black president.") and it reminds me of the frightening behavior and attitudes that still exist in America today.
Change is already in your face
The idea and image of the Male "Super" Model was defined during the 1990's - by names we all know very well, including Tyson Beckford. Today, the definition of Male "Super" Model, specifically BLACK MALE "SUPER" MODEL is being re-written.
There are actually several black men currently doing very well in the fashion industry. Although they are black, these guys are not defined by their race. They have reached a level of success that exceeds the issue of "race". One male model that come to mind is Reggie Resino. Although he's African American, he has reached a level up and above what most so called "Super Models" of the 90's only dreamed of. He's been seen all over europe in magazines, runway, tv advertistments, billboards, etc...He appeals to everyone. HE IS SIMPLY A "MALE MODEL", not a black male model, or a white male model, Just a "MALE MODEL", and a very successful one at that ! His race is unimportant. I think that's the new era and way models are being marketed. Look him up on the internet. This guy "Reggie Resino" is awesome.
taking a polaroid at the
taking a polaroid at the office and shooting for vogue and I-d is too different things. If thats the case, then just send the polaroid to the client, dont post it on your blogs. You think if these models' parents and peers see these pictures, they are going to be 100% percent supportive...? absolutely not. They are going to laugh and joke on the model.
Ethnic male models
I recall that Gucci used ethnic models in at least two of their campaigns..Joao and Romulo from Brazil and Javier from Spain. I think one of the problems with the lack of Black models in general is the client's bottom line. Blacks do not respond to Prada, Jil Sander, Armani, Versace, and other high end designers. As far as many of the Black models doing editorials, we know a model cannot survive on editorial alone. They must also have the catalogue and campaigns to make their place in the business worthwhile. It is so easy to amass a vast amount of debt in this business. In these tight economic times agencies are very reluctant to take on new faces of any ethnicity. I sincerely hope eventually there will be more opportunities for Black models such as Sean Sutton, Peter K, and Wendell L. These guys have very marketable looks that could eventually front the campaign of a major European designer. The industry needs a little more convincing.
Appalled
For you to say we don't respond to those designers is ludacris. I hear rappers all the time speak of Prada shoes, Armani suits, and Versace dresses all the time. I happen to love the Jil Sander shows. Im a 17 year old boy and if something looks good I notice just like any other person would. Black people's taste is no different from a white person's. I also bet Kanye West as clothing from every single brand that you mentioned. I watch these runway shows and I wonder why not every race is walking down that runway because all races buy the clothing.
"Blacks do not respond to
"Blacks do not respond to Prada, Jil Sander, Armani, Versace,"... EXCUSE ME. You couldn't be more wrong I recently relocated to Harlem and I am constantly in awe of how many of these young boys and girls I see with Prada sneakers and bags.. It saddens me because they are supporting a brand that could give 2 shits about them as a group.. Black girls are constantly rocking Versace Jeans ( soo tight you would think they were painted on) .. So please don't give us that.. And notably mention, when my husband and I were viewing apt to purchase I couldn't help but notice how impecabley dressed our AA broker was that day, I asked her who did her suit, she replied... drum rolll.. JILL Sander.. My point is Blacks due support these brands to a fault I think.. and they get no gratitude, and more importantly No Representation!
keyword representation
Thats exactly right. because there is no more tyson beckford, who's next to represent black males in the modeling business. But why would a black man want to be a model if speculators black men and others with vocal power like rappers are going to mudsling the guy, But i'll tell you whats up tho I am 18 years old born and raised in the "hood" but that doesn't mean i'm not book smart and it was always brain before beauty for me but being smart made me realize :why shouldn't i make money off my looks? I do know that my looks isn't everything and not something i should depend on. god forbid something happens.Thats why I'm majoring in Environmental science and regional geography which i know will take me far so i know i will be able to represent my culture and its people because there is no such thing as race. we the people created this
QUERY OF QUESTIONS
I have mixed reactions and a plethora of questions on this topic myself. Barring the oh so infrequent "getting lucky" with a campaign or lucrative monetary booking with our ethnic male models, it's hard to keep them in the business with the "few and far between" bookings for models of color that plague the industry. Outside of the passion of a booker, who believes in a model and delves into his or her own pocket to make it happen....its sad that sometimes, even the agency which represents these models don't feel obliged to invest in the longterm development of our black and ethnic models...and moreso now with the current state of our economic crisis. To open the doors to another Tyson beckford there has to be a total commitment on the part of the agency and the model....who unfortunately gets ribbing and jests from all sides...family, friends, even the agency they are with which often thinks that investing in them as they do their white counterparts is counterproductive. The willingness of the model is initially there, but the negatives seem to outweigh the desire once bookings dwindle and they have to answer to family, who it seems is more than ready to pull the strings and terminate the modeling aspirations and experience in liu of a more "meaningful" and respectful career choice and one that the family can palate, and friends who, if given the opportunity would abandon the model in question to take advantage of this opportunity.
In regards to the comment on marketing strategies....there is a double standard when caucasian or brazilian models who rise through the ranks are displayed in a "questionable" manner.....yet these so called onlookers with these comments have NO IDEA what takes place with requests from clients, photogs and the general public alike and on the other end if a model has a somewhat decent physique and are always portrayed as Mary Poppins or completely clad....it's funny that when these models don't gain the necessary following or requests to take them to the next level, these same critiques who know how they should be marketed don't step in and make their suggestions or better yet...DON'T HAVE THE CONTACTS to make it happen for these models. I'm not condoning the exploits of certain photogs in the business...but if a model doesn't show range and flexibility, their careers don't take off to the magnitude or extent that it could have if the envelope isn't pushed. Moreover, in an industry such as this where it's imperative that a model, male and female alike need to be comfortable with a semblance of nudity (just take a look at Vogue, ID, Another Mag, all the majors) or at the very least, need to have images that convey that they are comfortable and entice the caliber photog that will take a chance on them and open the doors of opportunity to them. Just take a look at what Jason does with some of the guys and every agency from Willy to Ford take suit....I for one, admire him and how he develops some of his guys. We can all sit back and take this holier than thou attitude and watch the others do what needs to be done and then applaud them in the end result for their "marketing strategies"....lol.
But back to the topic at hand and to sum things up.....there can be and will be a new male model of color "supermodel" with the push, drive and dedication of all parties involved who are supposed to have vested interest in making this happen. Thank God President Obama's presence has opened doors and raised the bar...now it's time for the industry to take note and comply.
Dave
http://redmodelsnyc.blogspot.com/
Thank you for that POV
I really apreciate that Dave. The time and thought that went into your post is really eye opening. Realities about managers having to dip into their own pockets...Models being disheartened by their family and peers...And your point about double-standards on people's reaction to "stripped down" images of black or Latino models are things I never really thought about. I've seen full frontals of male models in ID, Acne Paper, Arena Homme Plus etc and never thought it devalued them. God knows the most viewed images on TI are David Gandy's nude Dolce y Gabbana shots. Strange that people should think that underwear shots are a liability for the models at Red. I commend you for the passion and effort you put into your agency and I want you to know that I've found your conduct in this business to be nothing less than impeccable.
The Hansel and Gretel Groupies
We should stop going round in circles. The past is the past. George and David of Red need to be congratulated on getting a group of their black models over to Milan and Paris, its not easy getting a first passport, getting them on a plane ,accommodations, and convincing the agencies there to give them a shot ( even if they do use a little persuasion thru the higher profile white models they represent) getting the job done I admire that!. Italy has not had the best economy for years, the main source of export is textiles, and printing, A/W 09, Caribbean looks of Nordic?, it would not take a rocket scientist to think what might be better for sales, so bravo they added black models to the runway this season. Paris has always thrown a left curve. At one time if you were not black you could not do the couture shows!. Hermes has a little pepper (Thanks Oprah! ). New York. Well this throws me a little. How did these "late" creative/casting directors with their Hansel and Gretel reference books get to be in power?, this is where the problem lies, I don't believe on average designers are racist, they have to be optimistic in order to find that new linier line, some designers don't even get to see the new faces entirely as they are vetoed before they are presented to them, these casting cows seem to be more important than the designers and models, and may very well be casting for Hitler youth, which has nothing to do with America or American youth. Lets send them packing with their Jack and Jill Hand books back down the hill, and let's turn our channels back to Sesame St again, diverse, humorous, and vibrant, Then we may also see some supermodels with character emerge again, White Black and Asian.
I AM THE NEW BLACK....
I am a black photographer who works with many of the top agencies in nyc who can say the reason we haven't seen another black male supermodel since tyson is 1- the idea of male modeling has changed and 2- the idea of black male modeling hasn't changed. the industry's view of black men is 2 dimensional and limited. its kinda hard to reach super status if the can only see you one way.
changeing the game
what is ever new looking about a fashion model,they are human beings selected not to overpower the designers vision and upset the status quo.when it comes to humans who is making "new "people .When most of the designers come from middle class backgrounds,what makes any of us think they are going to want to see there maids kids in there clothes.America does not want to see poor people and they identify poverty with blackness unless it is milked down and pedigreed with crests from harvard or princeton .The divide between black and white can not change overnight in fashion before it changes in america .the politics of the fashion set reflect the morals of the country.white art directors and thus white america can digest certain stereotypes a black exotic concubine(naomi) .They can process a black buck athlete winning one for the team(tyson) and now in big business they love anything that resembles a black middleclass because they know that middleclass culture itself,like the aristocracy of old europe at some point is in d-a-n-g-e-r and in need of fresh blood(new money).When it comes to Blacks Asian or latino you will allways see more women models than the men of those cultures as reflected in corporate america,because of the "threat" that men from "conquered" cultures pose to the status quo.at the same time the ratio of those models actresses and artist will be carefully controlled by the status quo.Fashion in the u.s. is a competition,a race, as is being human.We black people keep asking for white culture to see us as human like themselves,but are we ...is that what we really want.Do i really want this major campaigne when this company is so blatantly racist ..in your face anti my people ...am i to measure my worth by the standards of people whoes standards are alien to me.The question should be where are the great black houses ...and if they do not exist what is in our way ...and even more importantly who will build them.Will a generation so under the louis vuitton and ysl and givenchy spell wake-up and start creating great houses.
Why is puffy having such a hard time with his womenswear and why for that matter does kanye want to intern at raf simon when his eye for design is unfailingly impeccable.
why wont miss kimora stop putting herself in ads and put some black models to work.why is beth-ann having talks at the library about why we are not in vogue when she could run her own agency.why do we look for white people to be kinder to us than our own kind,why is it that mama may have and papa may have but god bless the child thats got his own...thats bullshit god bless his son jesus.power is planted then carefully tended then passes from one hand to the next even more importantly being seduced by someone elses power will never get you power it feeds theres and depletes yours.
Real Talk!
"being seduced by someone elses power will never get you power it feeds theres and depletes yours".... That gave me goosebumps! Thank you!
The Main Reason
The main reason why there are no black male supermodels is because the agencies do not take new black models as frequently as they do white ones. There are only 1 or 2 agencies including Red Models who will add 10 more black models to their board. Unfortunately, the bookers at Red have a very poor strategy on marketing their models. You can not have photos taken of your models where I can see everything they've got down there. There need to be some type of fantasy. It should be a privilege to unwrap someone. I do not want to pay you money after I have seen everything that you are working with. You are no longer expensive to anyone. Do not take erotic polaroids of your models and fish it out to unprofessional, perverted, gay photographers, because the results are going to look cheap, all because you wanted a couple of free photos.
Great Reeead!
You have said what so many of us have been thinking! Work!
Let's focus on diversity here
Ok ok.. so there has been a serious and even fatal lack of diversity in Milan this season. BUT does that mean it's because there were no black models?
Another issue with male modeling (and modeing industry in general) is that they focus on shows and campaigns only showing caucasian models. Then it's a problem because there aren't any black models.
We all have to focus on other models of color too. It's not only about missing black models, it is also Asian models and not all Asians are like Chinese they are brown people too. Then there are Pacific Islanders, Latins and such.
Fashion Industry has to realize that it's not only white men and women who purchase designer clothes. If the designers make their brands global and open stores in Asian countries and such shouldn't it be obvious they also represent models of that country and culture too??
If fashion markets are global so should the modeling industry!
Winning the Game
Ohhhh Wayne! Again, you're touching on a subject that requires a lot of thought and energy but I have to give you props for bringing it up. You're doing the right thing. Most people don't want to be bothered with this sort of thing even though it's an extremely important topic that needs to be placed on the discussion table.
It all comes back to deeply ingrained feelings about race, whether male or female. There are more black girls on the scene these days but the runways and especially the campaigns are still dominated by white, skinny blondes. The only major difference on the advertising scene is the growing presence of older models, which is a welcome sign of change. But blacks and other women of color still get short-changed.
Black men are 'threatening' and too different to be accepted on the runway. Perception needs to change in the world of fashion. That perception is never going to change until powers-that-be start putting more black faces out there so that people get used to the idea that beauty comes in different forms. Perhaps a summit of the fashion's biggest and brightest - similar to the one dedicated to the females awhile back - is in order. You, Betty, and MDC have started the discussion. We need to keep the momentum rolling. If people don't talk, no one is going to listen, and the status quo will ever remain the same.
Obama won the game, even though the Limbaughs and the Coulters are writhing in pain like Linda Blair's demons in the Exorcist. But Obama didn't do it alone. He put his face (and books) out there and made his case until people learned to trust and accept him. -TCA
Who is the white male
Who is the white male supermodel you're making a comparison with? Seems to me that the supermodels are the women. Tyson was and is a unique looking man.
Marcus Schenkenberg, Tyson
Marcus Schenkenberg, Tyson Beckford, Mark Vanderloo, Andrew Stetson, Antonio Sabàto, Jr....Michael Bergin given the scope of their exposure and the multi-million dollar scale of their compensation qualified in the men's trade as supermodels in the 90's.
My Little Explanation
There hasn't been an African American male supermodel because no one in the industry has je nois se quoi! Tyson Beckford has the eyes, body, and personality to be a superstar in the modeling industry. Watching fashion shows nowadays, you see African American male models on the runways, but every one is them does not give it their all. Why do you think they call fashion shows fashion shows?
Also, the male modeling industry yearns for male models who are tall, masculine, and have a personality. Have you ever seen an average sized male model walking down the runway? I haven't. All I see are men who near six feet tall walking down the runway and they all have the same walk and expressions. Walks that look like the average joe and expressions that read, "i'm bored".
Furthermore there haven't been any other races on the runways because, well, there hasn't been anybody stepping up to the plate. In this undustry models have to want to model. Not to use the industry to pay the bills, earn fame, or "a life experience". If you were a casting director, would you hire a male model, knowing that they just want to money and not to help the industry out?
Maybe like Naomi, Tyson needs to get back on the runway and inspire. As far as I know I haven't seen an ad campaign or watched a fashion show that had Tyson in it. Then maybe the next Tyson or something will appear next season or next year.
If you think about it, it took 44 presidents to get to Barack Obama. How long will it take to get another Tyson Beckford? A year, a decade, a millenia? (hopefully not that long) There will be another black male supermodel. However, he won't be known as the next Tyson. Instead whoever he is will have his own one name and like Tyson, he will rise to become a superstar.
The real reason is climate, black style is decidedly involving
Hip Hop and rap largely these cultures specifically are anti styles in a fashion sense. With the exeption of a few rappers turning into designers such as Sean John the momentum is not strong enough to influence a thing with black youth firstly. Add to that the recession which makes black consumers less likely to indulge in high styles. With wemon the mood is still the same. They simply cant dress stunning too far ahead of what the guys are doing. Blacks need to decide what their "raison d'etre is as far as style is concerned. The reason for this is because the other races have already decided for themselves. The current moods are concentrating on the U.K. and its youth in a large sense as well as other European decention. They are not to be obligated to the black consumer at this time.
What on earth are you talking about?
You clearly don't know a wide range of black folk people as evidenced by your very narrow views.
It's "Je ne sais quoi" (I
It's "Je ne sais quoi" (I don't know what)
I am sure that there have
I am sure that there have plenty of black male models that have wanted to "model". Why would they work in an industry that is into exclusion and the promotion of racist attitudes by overtly denying black models opportunities? That would make them a masochist or self motivated martyrs, which I don't like is this case.
Will Lemay
Will was also up there in his day, rivaling Ryan Locke and Tyson Ballou for major editorial...what happend to his career?
PEA$E
KIBWE
Will started to take himself
Will started to take himself as to grand. Male models don't have the luxury to show up on set and through hair, make up and wardrobe to transform into many different things like female models. Once a male model goes down the Zoolander path noones can stand having them around. That is what happened to Will.
Black Males Models
Did anyone forget the first black male model to grace the covers of GQ--a magazine, in my view, that has gone downhill in terms of what is used to be about--clothes and men's fashion?
Look: there is no question that racism is an issue here. And let's not just talk about models. What are black fashion photographers and ART DIRECTORS (who make decesions about who gets hired)?
I am a black male. I wear "certain" Prada shoes--mainly from their "Linea" line. They are comfortable and run $495.00. Mind you, these are rubber sole shoes. But, they are superb as shoes you can wear wiuth suits or dress down.
There are two things that you have to deal with in the fashion industry: racism and the gay mafia within it--that is: gay men and women (mainly white) who make decesions at the the creative level. These people only want to see "exotic" kinds of black folks--anybody but black folks born stateside.
Black folks have done more to make all kinds of items in the fashion industry accessible to folks through urban and hip-hop culture. (I am not a fan of hip-hop myself; but, I am simply keeping it real.)
P Diddy and these kind of folks are not fashion designers. They have put their names on clothing. I would not wear P. Diddy clothes. I just don't see his line as associated with what sophisticated males would be wearing. But, I applaud him for getting his money.